Enjoy!<\/p>\n
All the best, Carline Cole:<\/em> Oh my, Dan.\u00a0 Thank you like telling me that now, Dan.\u00a0 I appreciate it.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Hey, if I would have told you that before you wouldn\u2019t have done it.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Well, you\u2019re smart; you\u2019re smart.\u00a0 Okay; well I\u2019m in the doghouse so let\u2019s see what happens.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> In the doghouse.\u00a0 I gotcha\u2019 locked in for the next 59 minutes or so.\u00a0 This is quite an honor.\u00a0 Thanks for doin\u2019 this, Carline.\u00a0 Carline is one of a handful of people in the world who can be called what we call an A List copywriter.\u00a0 Carline writes controls for big, huge, heavy hitter direct marketing companies.<\/p>\n Carline specializes in what she likes to call and what I like to call homerun packages.\u00a0 These are pieces that aren\u2019t just successful for the client.\u00a0 They completely knock the ball out of the ballpark and just crush controls and she\u2019ll tell us more about that in a little bit, but Carline has an extensive history of writing control packages.<\/p>\n To tell you how difficult that is I should probably explain what a control is.\u00a0 A control is a marketing piece, either sent direct mail or used on a web page or whatever that has been tested against other copywriter\u2019s pieces and has, one, being the most responsive in pulling in the most orders.<\/p>\n When Carline writes a control she\u2019s up against the best copywriters in the entire world.\u00a0 So to win a control is a very difficult thing to do for these big companies and is something that very, very few people are actually able to pull off and Carline has done that time and time and time again for the past ten years.<\/p>\n So, welcome Carline, to Doberman Dan\u2019s Doghouse.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Wow!\u00a0 You have this thing taped, right, because I gotta play that intro again.\u00a0 I feel like whew, boy, am I busy.\u00a0 What a great job.\u00a0 So thank you for the intro and thank you for havin\u2019 me.\u00a0 It\u2019s been a pleasure.<\/p>\n I met you what about a year ago now, Dan, when we got together for the boot camp?\u00a0 And it\u2019s been nice getting to continue to know you and to be at work with you.\u00a0 So thank you for having me and hopefully I can help you and your listeners, your shy listeners to be able to write their own kick butt packages.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Well I really appreciate ya\u2019 bein\u2019 on the call and I should also tell ya\u2019 that we\u2019ve got a bunch of people listening in on the simulcast website, which is this is being broadcast on a website and unfortunately those people aren\u2019t able to chime in over the phone, but they can send in questions and answers over the website.<\/p>\n So if you\u2019re listening in on the website, there\u2019s a box down there that you can send your questions in and Carline says she\u2019s gonna do her best to answer all the questions.\u00a0 So keep the questions comin\u2019.<\/p>\n So Carline we may have some shy people on the actual phone lines, but we\u2019ve got actually a good group of people listenin\u2019 on the web cast.\u00a0 So ya\u2019 feel like you\u2019re talkin\u2019 to yourself, but there are people.<\/p>\n So I hope I did a good job of introducing you.\u00a0\u00a0 I wanted to try to just explain how difficult it is to do what you do.\u00a0 Also, one thing I didn\u2019t touch on is you have a pretty extensive direct marketing background.\u00a0 You worked for a huge direct marketing company, Philips Publishing before you went freelance.\u00a0 So could you fill in the blanks I missed about your background and tell us more about your background.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Sure; I actually sort of stumbled in the whole direct marketing business, as most people that I talk to end up.\u00a0 No one starts off in life sayin\u2019 I wanna be a direct mail marketer or I wanna be a direct mail copywriter, but I\u2019d had my second baby.\u00a0 My second daughter was a year old and I was lookin\u2019 for a part-time job near home.<\/p>\n I originally went to school, got my degree in broadcast journalism and I wanted to be an anchor woman.\u00a0 That was my goal, but I got married, started havin\u2019 babies.\u00a0 Then I was broke.\u00a0 My husband and I were both broke and we were tryin\u2019 to just make ends meet and I just needed a part-time job so I could be a stay-at-home mom and just enjoy having my kids.<\/p>\n So there was a job opening for a customer service department at a small, growing company called Philips Publishing in Potomac, Maryland.\u00a0 I thought this is great, this is only 20 minutes from my house and they said flexible schedule, which is what I needed because my husband was a firefighter and we were determined to make sure we took care of our kids ourselves and not to rely on daycare.<\/p>\n So I thought wow, if I can get a flexible schedule, part-time job would be perfect.\u00a0 I interviewed with the company and it was like as soon as I got into that company I was like there is somethin\u2019 different about this place.\u00a0 The people there were very entrepreneurial and it was just a great place to be.<\/p>\n I was workin\u2019 in customer service, answerin\u2019 the phones, opening mail, whatever needed to be done and I gotta tell ya\u2019, that was probably the best job I coulda\u2019 had looking back now because that was the job that actually got me in touch with customers.\u00a0 I was listening to what they wanted, what they needed and how we were fulfilling their needs and wants.<\/p>\n It was a really great experience and I was there only about a year in the department, but just knowing how important the customer service role is I never thought I would need that later on in my career, but boy, did I ever appreciate that job.<\/p>\n So after, like I said, about a year in the company, I wanted to move up and do other things.\u00a0 I ended up in the accounting department for a short period of time.\u00a0 Then from the accounting department I found out that they were starting up this whole health division.\u00a0 They were looking for people for different positions.<\/p>\n I had no marketing skill, background at all.\u00a0 I liked health as far as just general interest, but I didn\u2019t have any experience as a health anything, marketer or writer, but the company, again being so proactive and open and I was able to pitch myself to the president of the company and tell him I wanted a shot at workin\u2019 in this department.<\/p>\n I think I must have done a good job \u2018cause I got hired as a marketing assistant; part-time again to be able to help launch the health group.\u00a0 It was just me and the group publisher at the time.\u00a0 We had this one little product called Cardiac Alert and our mandate was to find out if there\u2019s a market here in this health field that we can grow a business in.<\/p>\n I was there for 12 years working in different areas in the marketing, started off as marketing assistant.\u00a0 I eventually became assistant marketing manager, then a marketing manager and senior marketing manager to marketing director, then a group publisher.\u00a0 So I definitely grew in the company in those 12 years.<\/p>\n It was awesome experience, again, understanding how marketing worked, what direct mail was all about and then as a marketer I got to see these copywriters who were coming in and writing this copy and were just given these huge checks.<\/p>\n I was like how in the world do I get to do this because they get to work anywhere in the world and all they have to do is meet their deadline.\u00a0 Nobody cares.\u00a0 They give us a winning package, give us a control and they get money and keep getting money every time.<\/p>\n So I definitely found quickly that that was a gig I wanted to get into, but I just didn\u2019t have enough skills to do it that way.\u00a0 So as a marketing manager anytime I had an opportunity to try to write some copy I would try to do it and then I\u2019d get somebody who was better than me to critique it and look at it.<\/p>\n So I found that I had a little talent for the copyrighting part early on.\u00a0 I actually had my big shot was when we had a special renewal.\u00a0 We were trying to get subscribers to buy our vacuum products.\u00a0 So we had this special report that we were going to try to sell and they needed a writer because the person assigned to do it evidently I think left the company or somethin\u2019 happened last minute and it was a meeting thing.<\/p>\n \u2018We need somebody to write this.\u2019\u00a0 I was like, \u2018I\u2019ll do it.\u2019\u00a0 They looked at me like \u2013 \u2018cause nobody else raised their hand I guess and I got the job.\u00a0 I wrote this two-page sales letter to get the subscribers to renew their subscription to Health and Healing Newsletter<\/em> by getting this free report.<\/p>\n It did a four percent response for the company.\u00a0 We were happy with about a one to one and a half percent on the back end.\u00a0 So that got the attention of people.\u00a0 They were like, \u2018Wow!\u00a0 This is pretty good, Carline.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Heck, I just wrote to my mom.\u2019\u00a0 That\u2019s how I wrote it.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t like to some vast majority of people.\u00a0 I just wrote to one person saying if I could sell this to my mom then I\u2019m doing my job and it worked great.<\/p>\n So I got the copyrighting bug right at that time knowing I gotta do this more, but it still took several years of me still working in the company to get myself out there.<\/p>\n It was October of 1998 when my husband and I decided that I was ready to make the move, he was ready for me to make the move years before, but I was too chicken.\u00a0 I finally said, okay, I need to do this \u2018cause my family by now had gotten to be four children and the job itself was just too restrictive for me because as a marketer you have to be in the office at set times; 8:00 till 6:00 at night.<\/p>\n So I was either workin\u2019 all the time or thinkin\u2019 about work when I was at home and I wasn\u2019t happy with that mix and I really wanted to make a change just to be able to satisfy my personal life so that I enjoyed what I wanted, which is to be able to raise my kids and spend time with my husband and just enjoy life; not make work my life.<\/p>\n We bit the bullet.\u00a0 We put together a six-month plan and says, okay, if I quit my job how much do I need to make to be able to do okay on this.\u00a0 We paid off as many bills as we possibly could so that come January 1st, 1999 I was a freelancer.<\/p>\n It was the scariest thing I ever did, but it was the best thing I ever did as far as a job is concerned because once that happened and I was thrown in to the mix going ya\u2019 gotta make it happen, then had to do it.\u00a0 I took on assignments as consulting and whatever I could do to make ends meet \u2018cause no one was giving me a shot as a copywriter \u2018cause I had nothin\u2019 but my one little sales letter to show what I could do.<\/p>\n It was about a year or so of me consulting.\u00a0 Then while working with one company in Florida I was consulting with them and then there was a need for a copywriter and I told them, \u2018Hey, give me a shot at doing this.\u2019\u00a0 They still wouldn\u2019t give me a shot, even though I was workin\u2019 for a year, but they kept saying, \u2018We\u2019ll think about it, we\u2019ll think about it.\u2019<\/p>\n Then in the meantime another friend of mine who was a list broker had a client who had a male potency product.\u00a0 This client found out that about 40 percent of his market was African-American.\u00a0 He had the bright idea that hey, if I get an African-American male copywriter to write my copy, maybe they\u2019ll be able to sell better to my house frau, be able to make me more money because they can relate to the market more.<\/p>\n So, the list broker, my friend\u2019s job was to find a Black male copywriter to fit the bill.\u00a0 Well, he didn\u2019t know any.\u00a0 I was the closest thing he knew.\u00a0 He said, \u2018Well, aren\u2019t you half Black?\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Yes, I am.\u2019\u00a0 So she said, \u2018Well she\u2019s a Black and German woman.\u00a0 Will that work?\u2019\u00a0 He got me a conference call with a guy and I told him, \u2018Oh yeah, I can really help you out with that, understanding the Black male.\u00a0 I\u2019m married.\u2019\u00a0 And this and that.\u00a0 Told him all the stories about yeah, this is the best decision you could make.\u00a0 I got hired for the job.<\/p>\n In all honesty it was the dumbest decision he could have made because race has got nothin\u2019 to do with it.\u00a0 A lot of the White copywriters that I work with, White male copywriters were writing control for Essence Magazine<\/em> and Ebony Magazine<\/em>, but yet nobody knows that.\u00a0 So he was all wrong, but I wasn\u2019t gonna correct his thinking at the time \u2018cause I wanted the job.<\/p>\n I got the job, was scared to death.\u00a0 I was writing a male potency product for a newsletter \u2013 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 It was a supplement.\u00a0 Like I said, I was scared to death, but I did it and I ended up beating the control, which was written by a guy and that was the beginning of my story because now I can go to other people and other clients and say, \u2018Hey, I wanna work for you.\u2019\u00a0 They\u2019ll say, \u2018Well send me your samples.\u2019<\/p>\n I\u2019ll just say, \u2018Well no, let me just send you my latest control.\u2019\u00a0 My latest control was my only control, but who the heck cares.\u00a0 I have somethin\u2019 to show them.\u00a0 Once I had that, the client that I had in Florida that I had consulted with, when I show them what I did then they gave me a job as a copywriter and then it just started snowballing from there.\u00a0 It was writing the copy, it was working and I was getting more jobs.<\/p>\n Hey, did I answer your question \u2018cause I tend to go off ______ all the time.\u00a0 So let me know if I went off again.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> No; that\u2019s awesome.\u00a0 That actually triggered a bunch of thoughts and questions.<\/p>\n First of all, I had no idea you had wanted to be a news anchor and I actually can see you in that position.\u00a0 You would have been great at that by the way.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Hey, at the time Connie Chung was just makin\u2019 it big.\u00a0 I was in California.\u00a0 I was goin\u2019 to USC.\u00a0 Even when I was livin\u2019 in Maryland and I was in high school, I just wanted to get in broadcast journalism.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wanna do.<\/p>\n I went out to USC.\u00a0 That was what I was gonna focus on and I never stepped foot in a broadcast studio after then.\u00a0 When I got out of college I got my first job writing sales, ad sales actually.\u00a0 So I was selling radio advertising.\u00a0 Then I got married and then started having babies.\u00a0 I, okay, put the career thing on hold and never went back into it.\u00a0 It was like my whole life had changed \u2018cause I didn\u2019t wanna be owned, again havin\u2019 to be \u2013 I wanted to be 11:00 news, but I didn\u2019t wanna be on the news at 11:00 at night.\u00a0 [Laughter]<\/em><\/p>\n If I ________ I gotta be on the air at work at 11:00 at night to be 11:00 news.\u00a0 That\u2019s crazy.\u00a0 So life kinda\u2019 changed that, but that was my dream job was to be an anchor, a broadcast anchor.\u00a0 I got to meet and interview Connie Chung for my school paper.\u00a0 That was like the highlight of my sophomore year in college was that interview because she was real.\u00a0 She let me know the things I could expect as a female and everything else.<\/p>\n But like I said, oh well.\u00a0 I think I made the right decision.\u00a0 I am definitely not complaining.\u00a0 I think the salary\u2019s a little bit better doin\u2019 what I\u2019m doin\u2019 right now.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; I would definitely agree you made the right decision.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah; and I don\u2019t have to be up at 11:00 at night unless I want to.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> So that\u2019s a big difference.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Hey, I wanted to ask you a couple things.\u00a0 First of all, I noticed that your first year as a freelancer was not a walk in the park, but it sounds like you really reached out and started networking with a bunch of people to try to make some contacts, right?\u00a0 Like you brought up somethin\u2019 I think would be possibly a really good idea for beginning freelancers is to start making contacts with list brokers.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Oh yeah.\u00a0 I actually started making contact before I quit my job.\u00a0 When I knew I was leaving my job \u2013 I went in there in October of 1998 to quit my job and my boss talked me out of quitting and told me that if I stayed until the end of the year he would fire me instead.\u00a0 [Laughs]<\/em> I was like okay, what\u2019s the benefit of that?<\/p>\n He said, \u2018Well, you quit, then you give your two weeks\u2019 notice and you\u2019re outta\u2019 here, but\u2019 he said, \u2018you finish\u2019 \u2013 I was workin\u2019 on this huge project for a cruise line that we were doing and we had our core customers who were going to be on the cruise for our first seminar.\u00a0 I was responsible for puttin\u2019 that together.\u00a0 My boss, who was the president of the company at the time just did not want any chances of anything going wrong with 800 people who are his core market.\u00a0 So I was the one workin\u2019 on that project.<\/p>\n So I was gonna quit and he was like, \u2018No, I need you to make sure this happens.\u2019\u00a0 The cruise was in November.\u00a0 So he said, \u2018You finish, do an excellent job for me on this cruise and when you come back from the cruise I\u2019ll fire you.\u2019\u00a0 If I get fired then I got a six month severance package waiting for me if I do that.\u00a0 So I\u2019m like, \u2018Oh, well that\u2019s pretty sweet.\u00a0 That works.\u2019<\/p>\n So that took a lot of pressure from me off initially because I did a great job for him and I got fired, but I had a little bit of a cushion as far as a severance was concerned.\u00a0 So, October when I knew I was leaving, I was calling everybody and letting them know, \u2018Hey, I\u2019m gonna be leaving at the end of the year.\u2019\u00a0 We worked together.<\/p>\n Because at one point people were callin\u2019 me for jobs.\u00a0 Now I\u2019m callin\u2019 them and it\u2019s totally different when you\u2019re the one that\u2019s calling and asking for the work.\u00a0 It\u2019s amazing how different it is and not having any samples to show for it, too.\u00a0 So I really just used that time to try to do my best to connect with people and who I could take out to lunch and let them know what I wanted to, my goals were.<\/p>\n Fortunately I had a good relationship with people for the past 12 years when I was working there so that helped a lot, but it didn\u2019t necessarily give me a job immediately. \u00a0So yeah, my first job was actually just consulting \u2018cause I knew how to do mail plans \u2018cause I did that in the marketing side.<\/p>\n A lot of companies out there just did not understand how to do them well so they wanted to hire me to do marketing jobs.\u00a0 That was fine.\u00a0 It paid the bills, but that\u2019s not what I wanted to do.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t wanna be a marketer.\u00a0 I wanted to be a writer, but at that time I just said hey, I\u2019ll take whatever I can get \u2018cause I wanna be able to build up the rapport and everything.<\/p>\n Yeah; that first year all I did was consulting.\u00a0 I tell you, when that last severance check ran out, that was six months into me being a freelancer and there was no turning back trying to go back to my job \u2018cause I\u2019m sure they had filled it by then and if you would have moved on, it was pretty scary, but scary is good because fear is a great motivator.<\/p>\n So I just kept going with it.\u00a0 The key is you can be scared inside, but don\u2019t let it come off if you\u2019re afraid because people can sense desperation.\u00a0 You know how it is when you\u2019re desperate for something, it never comes to you, but when you\u2019re willing to let it go, then all of a sudden it\u2019s attracted to you.\u00a0 That is very true.<\/p>\n So I had to learn to just be cool, calm and collected.\u00a0 When somebody told me, \u2018Well we\u2019ll think about you six months down the road.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Okay; no problem.\u00a0 I may be available by then, too, so it could work out great for both of us.\u2019<\/p>\n I\u2019m sitting there going oh my goodness!\u00a0 I have nothing to do for the next six months.\u00a0 But you just gotta play the game a little bit and keep at it, but not being too pushy.\u00a0 Like when you call somebody up, you have something to say, have a reason.\u00a0 Not just, \u2018Hey, I need a job.\u2019\u00a0 But try to have something as a benefit to them, like you\u2019re helping them out in that conversation.\u00a0 Give them some advice or information or whatever that\u2019s beneficial to them.<\/p>\n That\u2019s how you build it up.\u00a0 So they\u2019ll take your phone call the next time you call because it\u2019s not like, \u2018Oh, she\u2019s just calling to get a job.\u00a0 This person\u2019s got some knowledge for me that I can learn something from.\u2019<\/p>\n It is definitely an acting game because you gotta play it cool sometimes.\u00a0 Just you don\u2019t come off too desperate, but at the same time you gotta go after the jobs because if not no one\u2019s gonna come knock on your door to give it to you.\u00a0 That doesn\u2019t happen until you have already made it and you are successful.\u00a0 Then people come and say \u2018Hey, can I work with you.\u2019 Kinda\u2019 stuff.<\/p>\n But those first few years, oh heck no.\u00a0 You gotta be out there aggressive and goin\u2019 out for it.\u00a0 So meeting anybody I mentioned.\u00a0 List brokers are great contacts \u2018cause remember, a list broker\u2019s job is to get the right list for the clients and mail the promotion piece to.\u00a0 So the list broker gets to see the creative that\u2019s gonna be mailed to the list.\u00a0 Sometimes the list broker knows who the copywriter is also.<\/p>\n If the list broker is good at his job, he\u2019s gonna have a little bit of any onto what\u2019s good copy and what\u2019s not good copy.\u00a0 He may have a good sense for that.<\/p>\n Fortunately my friend who was working at Walter Carl at the time, his name was Dave Nelson; Dave was very involved with his clients.\u00a0 He saw the promotion pieces in advance.\u00a0 He was more of a consultant with them also.\u00a0 So they told him, \u2018Dave, we\u2019re trying to find a copywriter here who can help us.\u2019\u00a0 So Dave knew me.<\/p>\n I would never have gotten to this guy.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t even know who these guys were, but Dave knew them.\u00a0 He says, \u2018Well if you can do a good job for me, then that means for the client you\u2019ll be able to give them more of a successful package. They can mail more of my names.\u00a0 So it\u2019s a win-win situation all around.\u2019<\/p>\n That\u2019s how I worked.\u00a0 So list brokers are great sources, people to talk to.\u00a0 If you know any of them, but just about anybody.\u00a0 Letting anybody who\u2019s in the field or anybody you know, let them know what you\u2019re doing because they may know somebody who knows somebody who can help you out.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Extremely valuable advice, especially about when you\u2019re desperate, you gotta fake it till you make it \u2018cause people can pick up on that desperation, too.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Absolutely.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> You brought up somethin\u2019.\u00a0 What was I gonna ask you?\u00a0 Oh, I remember.\u00a0 What you did at Philips, being a marketing director, what were those responsibilities and do you think that helped you in copyrighting?<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yes; my responsibilities as marketing director was to hire copywriters.\u00a0 I was responsible for the creative side of the business.\u00a0 So I would assign out the job to a particular copywriter who I thought would do the best job for the project and then the copywriter would send me the draft and I would look over it.<\/p>\n Then we\u2019d have a meeting within the company to decide what we thought about the package, anything we thought could make it better stronger, whatever.\u00a0 Then I\u2019d go back to the copywriter and tell him or her what I thought about it and what we needed from them.<\/p>\n So I had a relationship with the copywriters and that\u2019s how I met Clayton Makepeace.\u00a0 Clayton was a copywriter.\u00a0 Actually I wasn\u2019t a marketing director then.\u00a0 I was just a marketing assistant.\u00a0 But he was the king of copywriters, especially for Philips.\u00a0 He was writing all of the controls at the time on the health side.\u00a0 So I would see his stuff.\u00a0 I got to read his stuff.\u00a0 I was like man, this stuff is good.\u00a0 I wanna buy it and I can get this stuff for free.<\/p>\n So just from reading.\u00a0 I spent years just reading the stuff that he would send in.hen he came in to meet with everybody he was just as nice, spoke to everybody and was like, \u2018Hi.\u2019\u00a0 He knew my name, as a hi, as a friendly saying.\u00a0 Not as necessarily somebody who\u2019s gonna help him in his field.<\/p>\n But it was a great opportunity because I got to know who the copywriters were.\u00a0 I got to create a friendship with them, with many of them.\u00a0 So when I was ready to leave I was able to call many of them up and say, \u2018Hey, by the way, I wanna compete with you in that sense \u2018cause I wanna be a copywriter, too.\u2019<\/p>\n So I didn\u2019t get a whole lot of help from them, except for Clayton who he was like my biggest cheerleader, next to my husband.\u00a0 He was like, \u2018I can\u2019t tell you _______ \u2018cause they\u2019re my biggest client.\u00a0 I don\u2019t wanna be accused of stealing employees.\u2019\u00a0 He said, \u2018But when you decide to leave, you give me a call \u2018cause I know you could do in this field.\u2019<\/p>\n So when I did actually terminate my employment then I called him up and he\u2019s the one that got me the first job with that consulting company in Florida because he was working with \u2013 it was Wice Research at the time and Clayton was working with them and they needed somebody to help with marketing.\u00a0 So that\u2019s how I got my first job.<\/p>\n It wasn\u2019t a copywriting job, but it was my first job as a freelancer, which again knowing somebody to help me get in there.\u00a0 So networking is extremely, extremely critical with this field because your reputation is everything.\u00a0 You get a bad rep as a lousy copywriter or a hard to work with copywriter it spreads like crazy because it\u2019s such a small industry.<\/p>\n So having a great reputation is a good thing.\u00a0 Because, \u2018Oh, she\u2019s great to work with\u2019 or \u2018She\u2019s fast.\u00a0 She gets it done and she understands the market.\u2019\u00a0 Or whatever.\u00a0 So those are the kinds of things that people say about you in the industry and that travels.<\/p>\n Marketing directors talk to marketing directors and they talk to other people.\u00a0 They get their little seminars together and they start throwing names around.\u00a0 It\u2019s a way to grow your business when the people start calling you instead of you having to call them.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> What are some of the biggest mistakes that you think beginning copywriters make or just copywriters in general, that would get that word goin\u2019 on like, oh, this guy or gal isn\u2019t that great to work with?<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> This industry is a people oriented business.\u00a0 That\u2019s all it is.\u00a0 You\u2019re writing to people.\u00a0 Your prospects are people so you have to understand your people.\u00a0 You have to get hired by people.<\/p>\n When I was a marketing director I wasn\u2019t gonna take a chance on a new copywriter.\u00a0 If I knew my budget only gave me four new packages a year and I had four new packages to be able to make my quota or hit my budget, I\u2019m not gonna take a chance on somebody who has no track record at all.<\/p>\n I\u2019m gonna go after somebody who has a track record unless there\u2019s a really good reason for me to take that chance because remember, I\u2019m trying to cover my butt and keep my job as a marketing director.<\/p>\n You have to remember that as a copywriter.\u00a0 Don\u2019t take it personal if they don\u2019t wanna talk with you or don\u2019t wanna deal with you.\u00a0 It\u2019s only because they\u2019re limited.\u00a0 They have X amount of promotions that they can get out and they need it to be a success as much as possible.\u00a0 That\u2019s why they\u2019re willing to pay the top dollars for the top copywriters because the track record is that much better.<\/p>\n So they\u2019re gonna say, \u2018Well do I wanna spend $5,000.00 on a new copywriter who has zero track record or do I wanna go ahead and pay $25,000.00 for a copywriter I\u2019ve got about a 85 percent chance I\u2019m gonna get a success with.\u2019\u00a0 That $5,000.00 starts looking very, very expensive in comparison to the $25,000 because you spend 5 grand and you lose it, you\u2019re done.<\/p>\n It\u2019s not that you just lost the $5,000.00.\u00a0 That\u2019s not the big deal, but you\u2019ve lost that opportunity. \u00a0You\u2019ve lost that slot to mail your packages.\u00a0 You lost the chance to continue having a winner.\u00a0 You\u2019re back to the drawing board with the next mailing cycle, but you don\u2019t have a control.\u00a0 So that\u2019s the opportunity cost.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s why a lot of times it\u2019s not about the money.\u00a0 I know copywriters that charge $50,000.00 to write a package and they get it because they\u2019ll deliver.\u00a0 So they\u2019ll not say, \u2018Well I\u2019ll just charge you 10,000.\u00a0 I\u2019m much better of a risk than that.\u2019\u00a0 No, you\u2019re not.\u00a0 Unless you\u2019ve proven that you can write a package to get them a control, then they\u2019re not gonna look at the money necessarily as the main issue.<\/p>\n Now having said that, you can still have a copywriter writing a package and getting paid $25,000.00 and it still not work, but the odds are more in favor.\u00a0 As a marketing director I\u2019m gonna go with my odds of getting the one who\u2019s gonna give me the best for my money and that\u2019s what I learned a lot as a marketing director.<\/p>\n I never took it personal when they wouldn\u2019t hire me because I understood where you\u2019re coming from.\u00a0 You wanna save your job.\u00a0 So my job is to get myself a reputation, get myself a history, a track record that I could show you, \u2018Hey, you go with me, you\u2019re not gonna go wrong.\u2019\u00a0 Then that\u2019s when I think if you can get those two things goin\u2019, then you\u2019ll get the job.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> That\u2019s good advice and to have somebody who\u2019s been on both sides of the table so to speak, hiring copywriters and then going after the work as a freelance copywriter.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yep; it\u2019s definitely a difference, but like I said, I didn\u2019t take offense when I didn\u2019t get the stuff because I understood why.\u00a0 Still got sad I didn\u2019t get the job, but I understand the mind set of what was going on.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t take it personal and just kept goin\u2019.\u00a0 Alright; well I gotta prove to you.<\/p>\n Then I didn\u2019t go after the big jobs initially either.\u00a0 It\u2019s like, like I said, get a smaller job.\u00a0 Do something on the back end.\u00a0 Those are a lot easier to get into to write the sales letters, the two-page, the four-page, six-pagers, eight-page letters to sell to existing customers.\u00a0 That\u2019s not as glorified of a job.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t pay as much, but still it gets you into the company.<\/p>\n You write a couple of those packages for them and they\u2019re making money from it, well now they\u2019re willing to take a chance on you on something like a direct mail piece because they go, \u2018Well, she\u2019s written for us on the back end and she\u2019s done very well here.\u00a0 Why don\u2019t we give her a shot at working for us to acquire customers.\u2019<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> That\u2019s a great way to get your foot in the door then.\u00a0 Ask the marketing director, \u2018Hey, is there something like a newsletter insert or a back end promotion I can start with to prove myself to you?\u2019<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yep; exactly.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> I wanna ask you about Clayton Makepeace in a second and your working with him, but first I just wanna address the folks listening in on the web cast web page \u2018cause we got a nice group of people on there.<\/p>\n Carline, you never do these things, do you, Carline?<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> No; this is my first one.\u00a0 I\u2019m a virgin.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> You\u2019re a _______ and you told me you have avoided doing these for ten years.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah.\u00a0 I remember one time Clayton interviewed me one time.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t for a web cast.\u00a0 He interviewed me and he did it for his newsletter, for his total package newsletter.\u00a0 That was fine.\u00a0 That\u2019s really the only thing I\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n I\u2019ve done a couple interviews, but this is my first one.\u00a0 Yeah; I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what you guys wanna hear so it\u2019s a lot easier if somebody asks me a question, I can answer what you want instead of me just rambling on and on about stuff because I can\u2019t tell.\u00a0 I feel like I\u2019m in a vacuum.\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell.\u00a0 Are you interested in this or what.\u00a0 So I just go ugh, yuck, forget it.\u00a0 I\u2019ll just stop.\u00a0 I won\u2019t do this.\u00a0 I\u2019ll just write copy instead.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Here\u2019s the deal, folks.\u00a0 This may be the only time in your life you\u2019ve got access to a copywriter this good, an A-List copywriter, which there are literally a handful of in the U.S. who are good enough to do the kind of work Carline does and you\u2019ve got her at your disposal to ask any question you want.\u00a0 So there\u2019s a question box there on the website.\u00a0 Just go ahead and submit your questions.\u00a0 If you\u2019re shy I won\u2019t even mention your name with the question.\u00a0 So we\u2019ll handle it that way.<\/p>\n While they\u2019re in the process of sending questions, Carline, I wanna ask you about how you got to work with Clayton Makepeace and how that was for you, if that was intimidating or scary or what.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> When I worked with him as a freelancer or when I worked with him as a marketing director?<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; when you worked with him as a freelancer.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Oh my goodness.\u00a0 That was awesome.\u00a0 What happened was Clayton \u2013 I had written some things before and like I said, I studied his stuff all the time, the nuance in his copy.\u00a0 I just think he is just a brilliant writer and he can just nail his market like nobody can.<\/p>\n He wrote a launch package for a women\u2019s health letter that you would have sworn a woman wrote that.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve met Clayton you know he is anything but a woman.\u00a0 So, just the fact that he just can get into the mind set of his market was just awesome.<\/p>\n So I got a chance when I was working with a client in Florida \u2013 this is a kind of cool story \u2013 we got assigned to work on a project and this was like my first big direct mail piece.\u00a0 I did the one on the male potency before then, but this one I\u2019m working on it and got the job \u2018cause the client felt like that he had this idea where it was a product.\u00a0 It was a newsletter, but we were gonna talk about \u2013 it was like a sex approach to it, the difference in women and men and just issues about sex, getting older.<\/p>\n He thought, alright, well let me pair Clayton up with Carline.\u00a0 So that here you got Carline, a female, and then Clayton a male and then maybe that would really help make the package really strong.<\/p>\n Then at the same time I was getting the training from Clayton because I would write copy and just make sure that \u2013 I knew I was covered.\u00a0 I had a little net there in case my stuff really sucked, then he would be there to tell me no, this is weak, this is weak, go back and fix it or whatever.\u00a0 So it was a great opportunity.<\/p>\n We ended up working on that package.\u00a0 I would write stuff that I just thought was so wonderful and I\u2019d send it back to him and he\u2019s like, \u2018Nope.\u2019\u00a0 Like mark it all up and get back and do this.\u00a0 You _______ talking to and this and that or whatever.<\/p>\n So I got a lot of that working with him. \u00a0He uses a lot of cuss words.\u00a0 I can\u2019t say them all, but one point when I did the male potency package I had him look it over for me and his one comment was, \u2018You write like a f_ _ _ in\u2019 girl.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Um, I am a girl.\u2019\u00a0 He\u2019s like, \u2018Yeah, but your market isn\u2019t.\u2019\u00a0 That was probably the best crit I ever got in my life.\u00a0 It\u2019s like it\u2019s not who you are.\u00a0 It\u2019s who you\u2019re writing to.<\/p>\n So, that\u2019s why I say that whole story about having to have an African-American male writer to understand the Black male potency market is a bunch of crap \u2018cause the majority of people that I write to are White males over 50.\u00a0 The last time I looked in the mirror I was none of those things.\u00a0 [Laughter]<\/em><\/p>\n That\u2019s got nothin\u2019 to do with it.\u00a0 It\u2019s about talkin\u2019 to people and addressing their problems and giving them a solution.\u00a0 So anyway, we get going on this sex package and I\u2019m writing it and I\u2019m working on it and I\u2019m really just trying to do my best on it and everything else.<\/p>\n We write the package and it is kickin\u2019 butt.\u00a0 It is doin\u2019 so well and the client was so proud of himself \u2018cause it was his idea to put a male and a female writer together to come up with this idea.\u00a0 The headline was Forbidden Secrets of Sex and Healing or something like that I think.<\/p>\n So we were writing on that right there.\u00a0 So Martin\u2019s on the phone, Martin Wice is the president of the company in Florida.\u00a0 He\u2019s like, \u2018Aww, this is great.\u00a0 The results are phenomenal.\u00a0 I\u2019m really excited about that.\u2019\u00a0 He goes, \u2018When I read about the tenderness and the compassion in the copy.\u2019\u00a0 I go, \u2018Oh yes, that\u2019s Carline coming through.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018No, actually that was Clayton.\u2019<\/p>\n Then he\u2019s like, \u2018Oh okay.\u2019\u00a0 He goes, \u2018But then when I read about the thrusting and the\u2019 [Laughter]<\/em> all of these guy terms he started using, he goes, \u2018I knew Clayton was comin\u2019 through for me.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018No, actually that was me.\u2019\u00a0 We had totally ended up changing roles and writing that copy that Clayton wrote a better copy as a woman and I wrote better copy as a man for that piece.<\/p>\n So whatever it took it worked and that was the package that actually I put a swimming pool in my backyard with the royalties on that package.\u00a0 So ___________________ —<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Oh, great.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah; it was pretty cool.\u00a0 Clayton\u2019s a wonderful person to work with, but he is an experienced wrier and he knows what works.\u00a0 So like I said, he\u2019s a wonderful person, wonderful friend, but the crit he will give you on your copy will make you wanna cry, but if you go back and make the changes he suggested you got a good chance of getting a winner when you do that.\u00a0 So that was a really powerful lesson to learn.<\/p>\n I let anybody crit my copy.\u00a0 I have just put my ego on a shelf and I\u2019ll let somebody read this and I\u2019ll just say, \u2018What do you think?\u00a0 When you\u2019re reading this, mark where you get bored and mark where you feel like you mind just dazed on me or what you like, what you didn\u2019t like.\u2019\u00a0 I have no problems.\u00a0 Just tell me because I\u2019m writing in a vacuum so I need to get some feedback from people and see what they think about things.<\/p>\n Sometimes I\u2019m saying something and then once I hear somebody else say it, I\u2019m like ooh, you\u2019re not reading it like I said it.\u00a0 So obviously that\u2019s my fault so I gotta go back and fix it accordingly.\u00a0 So it was very, very beneficial and I worked with Clayton for a few years when I first got started just doin\u2019 stuff.<\/p>\n He had extra work I would do for him and what not.\u00a0 Those were extremely important years because it helped me create my copy, helped me tighten up my copy, helped me really focus on who I\u2019m writing to and what\u2019s the benefit.<\/p>\n At the same time, I then started developing my own style where I\u2019d see what he was saying and I would say, mm, but I\u2019m gonna break that rule.\u00a0 Then I would try my own way and do things, but I had to know what the rules were first before I could break them.\u00a0 He was just an awesome master.\u00a0 The fact that he\u2019s got a website now and all that stuff he was teaching me, he put it down in writing and it\u2019s free.\u00a0 [Chuckles]<\/em><\/p>\n So it\u2019s like you\u2019d be crazy not to take advantage and just reading the stuff that he writes because the dude is phenomenal.\u00a0 That\u2019s all I have to say.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; I agree.\u00a0 I met him at your seminar last year and he\u2019s just a really nice salt of the earth type person.\u00a0 His wife Wendy, too.\u00a0 But I\u2019m sittin\u2019 there havin\u2019 dinner with him, hangin\u2019 out with him and we\u2019re laughin\u2019 and havin\u2019 fun, in the back of my mind I\u2019m thinkin\u2019 he\u2019s a really nice guy, but I imagine he\u2019s just like a bear on crit and copy.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah; and the thing was, he always says, \u2018You know I love you, but.\u2019\u00a0 Then he gets to the crit, but you gotta realize, you separate the two.\u00a0 It\u2019s got nothin\u2019 to do with \u2013 yeah; everything you saw in him at that dinner that we had is exactly how he is.<\/p>\n He is down to earth.\u00a0 He is no pretense about him.\u00a0 What you see is what you get, but he also understands the business and it\u2019s like the business is you gotta write copy that you\u2019re competing against other people.\u00a0 You gotta make a killer copy.\u00a0 You\u2019ve gotta do these things.<\/p>\n So yeah, when he\u2019s looking at your copy, you don\u2019t want \u2013 I don\u2019t want somebody to crit my copy going, \u2018Oh, this is really nice.\u00a0 This is sweet.\u00a0 This is good.\u2019\u00a0 I don\u2019t care about that.\u00a0 Tell me where the problems are.\u00a0 What do you see.\u00a0 What is the issue.<\/p>\n That\u2019s what you want when anybody\u2019s looking at your copy.\u00a0 You want them to go at it and say, \u2018Ya\u2019 know what?\u00a0 You lost me here.\u00a0 What are you trying to say?\u00a0 Well that\u2019s a confusing illustration.\u2019\u00a0 Or, \u2018You could make this a lot simpler.\u2019<\/p>\n So he may say it in other words, but that\u2019s the bottom line is his goal is to help you get a stronger sales letter that you can get out there and make a winner.\u00a0 So I learned, like I said, having been thrown in it that way, I do not take offense.<\/p>\n If somebody tells me my copy sucks, I\u2019m like, \u2018Really?\u00a0 Where?\u00a0 Tell me where it sucks.\u00a0 What do you suggest?\u2019\u00a0 I don\u2019t mind.\u00a0 I still like that, even to this day.\u00a0 I will have somebody look at my copy and tell me what they think about it and if they hate it, I respect it and tell me where you think it\u2019s terrible and I will try to fix it.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s what it was like.\u00a0 It was the best experience to be able to have someone like that take the time to do it and help you out.\u00a0 That was phenomenal.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> One of the questions we got and you answered a lot of it, but see if this triggers anything else.\u00a0 They ask, \u2018When you studied under Clayton Makepeace how much different was your copywriting skill, studying and working under a master?\u00a0 What did he change in your writing?\u2019<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> He just taught me to focus on my market.\u00a0 To who I\u2019m talking to.\u00a0 First thing is your promotion is gonna initially get mailed to about 20,000 to maybe 100,000 people to see if \u2013 you\u2019re gonna test it to see if it works.<\/p>\n If it works, you hope that they will get mailed millions of times.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve got a strong package they can mail that package half a million pieces every couple months easily; millions and millions.\u00a0 Clayton has packages that have mailed 25 million pieces over the years.\u00a0 So yeah, all these people will be able to see your package, but the bottom line is you are writing to one person.<\/p>\n So he taught me to really think about who I\u2019m writing to and visualize that person and understand their problems and not talk to them at arm\u2019s length, but talk to them like I\u2019m putting my arm around them that\u2019s saying, hey, you know what?\u00a0 When you getting\u2019 up and you gotta sit up first before you can put your feet on the floor \u2018cause you know if you try to stand straight up your knees will kill you.<\/p>\n Yeah; he just taught me to talk to people so that while they\u2019re reading my copy they\u2019re just nodding their head yes, that\u2019s me, yes, that\u2019s me, yes, that\u2019s me.\u00a0 You know me, you know me.\u00a0 I think that was a huge lesson learned because that is what you have to do.\u00a0 You\u2019re writing a sales letter.\u00a0 It\u2019s a personal letter.\u00a0 You have to forget that it\u2019s going out to a lot of people, but just say no, it\u2019s only gonna go to one person.<\/p>\n That first letter I told you I did when I was working at Philips, I wrote that vitamin letter.\u00a0 I wrote to my mom.\u00a0 I even had her name in the letter because I said oh, no, I\u2019m talking to my mom here.\u00a0 That\u2019s what did it because I knew the problems my mom was struggling with when it came to understanding vitamins and supplements and all that.<\/p>\n So I just said she always talks about this.\u00a0 She says these things.\u00a0 She uses these words.\u00a0 So I just did what she told me.\u00a0 So in essence, copywriting is the easiest and the most difficult job at the same time.\u00a0 It\u2019s the easiest job because all you have to do is give people what they want.\u00a0 That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n The hardest thing is you gotta find out what it is they want and you gotta put it in a way that they\u2019re gonna wanna hear it, but if you\u2019ve got joint pain and I\u2019m talking to somebody with joint pain I\u2019m gonna use the words and I\u2019m gonna talk about the stories and illustrations, examples, whatever that they can relate to.<\/p>\n It\u2019s not about joint pain.\u00a0 It\u2019s about being able to pick up your grandchild without having your knees scream or your back go out or all these other kind of things.\u00a0 It\u2019s about being able to toss the ball with your arm.\u00a0 So it\u2019s not just shoulder pain.\u00a0 It\u2019s lifestyle that\u2019s affected.\u00a0 It\u2019s about sitting down in a chair and watching your grandchild play the game versus being right there on the team with them.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s what the experience with him and just reading his copy.\u00a0 Whenever I read Clayton\u2019s copy I just feel like they\u2019re just talking to me.\u00a0 Whoever it is is writing to me, this person knows me.\u00a0 He\u2019s talking directly to me about my issues and that is the key I think to being successful in writing a sales letter is just connecting with your market.\u00a0 So that was what I learned the most.<\/p>\n The other things as far as the studying the masters and the various copywriting tools and rules and all this kind of stuff, that kind of came along with the territory, but I could have gotten that from a book.\u00a0 It\u2019s good to have that information, but I think that was the experience with Clayton being able to take my copy \u2018cause I remember I would turn in copy to him and I\u2019m thinkin\u2019 this is great.<\/p>\n He\u2019ll look at it.\u00a0 He goes, \u2018Alright, this is not bad.\u00a0 This is pretty good.\u2019\u00a0 By the time I see my copy I think he left like three words.\u00a0 It\u2019s like where the heck is my copy?\u00a0 Where\u2019d it go.\u00a0 He goes, \u2018No, no.\u2019<\/p>\n But what I was doing at one point for him was I was doing the draft and getting it to him, but to me it was a final, but to him it was just a first draft \u2018cause he would just take that and then he would massage it and do his own thing.<\/p>\n So I\u2019m going, \u2018This is not my copy.\u00a0 This is good copy.\u00a0 That\u2019s not what I sent him.\u2019\u00a0 But that was one thing that we did a lot where I would turn in something to him.\u00a0 If he had a lot of projects to work on, he had me maybe work on a couple of sidebars, to write that copy for him.\u00a0 Then I would write it and I would give it to him.<\/p>\n I\u2019m waiting for the final piece to see my sidebar and like I said, it\u2019s not there.\u00a0 The thought is there, but he just took it to a whole new level.\u00a0 That was like wow, I wish I had turned that into you instead of you having to redo it.\u00a0 He was like, \u2018That\u2019s okay.\u00a0 You\u2019ll get there.\u2019\u00a0 And eventually I did.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Ya\u2019 know you talkin\u2019 about knowing your market and relating to your market and how that first letter you wrote you actually to your mom, you taught me somethin\u2019 last year that every time I go to Walmart I think about.<\/p>\n You said, \u2018When you go to Walmart look at the people around.\u00a0 Those are the prospects.\u00a0 Those are the people you\u2019re writin\u2019 for.\u2019\u00a0 Instead of goin\u2019 to Walmart, like tryin\u2019 to go in there and get everything done real fast and drag my wife out of there as quickly as I can, I\u2019ve been goin\u2019 in \u2013 course, every time I go to Walmart I think of you.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if you think that\u2019s \u2013<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> [Laughs]<\/em> I love Walmart.\u00a0 Are you kidding me?\u00a0 That\u2019s my favorite store in the world.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Every time I go there I\u2019m there with my antenna up.\u00a0 I\u2019m observing people.\u00a0 I\u2019m actually eavesdropping on conversations.\u00a0 I\u2019m watching couples fight about what they gotta take out of their cart \u2018cause they don\u2019t have the budget for and it\u2019s been really good for me to \u2013<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> It\u2019s real life.\u00a0 Walmart is real life.\u00a0 At least in our marketplace.\u00a0 If you\u2019re into a high end \u2013 if I was sellin\u2019 luxury automobiles, then Walmart may not be my ideal test market, but I\u2019m sellin\u2019 supplements to over 50 year old people, not necessarily affluent, but not poor either.\u00a0 Just run of the mill people who have pain and they don\u2019t wanna use drugs.\u00a0 They want an alternative to their drugs.\u00a0 That\u2019s what they\u2019re looking for.<\/p>\n I\u2019m at Walmart and I\u2019m listening.\u00a0 I\u2019m kind of eavesdropping.\u00a0 I\u2019m talking to people.\u00a0 Just hearing what they\u2019re saying and just making little mental notes of the words that they use and how they use it and what they\u2019re frustrated about.<\/p>\n You can pick up all that stuff just hangin\u2019 around there and just startin\u2019 a conversation with somebody there who you feel is more your market or just watching people.\u00a0 Somebody with arthritis.\u00a0 Watch how they have to go pick up a jar.\u00a0 Watch how they try to open up a jar.\u00a0 Look at their face, the pain.\u00a0 Get a visual imagery of all that kind of stuff because now when you\u2019re writing to somebody with joint pain you can talk about that if you don\u2019t have it yourself.<\/p>\n I am just now becoming my market.\u00a0 I just turned 48.\u00a0 So I\u2019m not even at my 50 year old market yet.\u00a0 So I\u2019ve been in this business for 25 years so I\u2019ve had to rely on other people to me to fuel myself to understand when they\u2019re talking about joint pain, they\u2019re talkin\u2019 about blood sugar problems, talkin\u2019 about all these issues that they have with their health, I have to rely on my grandmother and my mom and my father-in-law and all these people who are the market.\u00a0 So I\u2019ve gotta talk with them and see what they think about it.<\/p>\n Unfortunately now I have those pains so I can relate to them myself.\u00a0 Like ow.\u00a0 It\u2019s just now that I\u2019m starting to become my market for the most part, but doesn\u2019t mean I can\u2019t write about it for them if I know what their problems are and I\u2019ve got a problem that can solve their issues.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Obviously you don\u2019t have to be your market with the successes you\u2019ve had, with the things you\u2019ve written for.<\/p>\n Here\u2019s a good question that just came in.\u00a0 \u2018What are your top three secrets for beating a current control?\u2019<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> My number one secret for beating a current control is never go after a hot control.\u00a0 That\u2019s just ridiculous.\u00a0 The thing is every control has a life cycle.\u00a0 So it could be a hot, successful control.\u00a0 Why would you go after it when it\u2019s at that point.\u00a0 Let it go ahead and go through its cycle of it\u2019s gonna be hot.\u00a0 Eventually if a marketer\u2019s doin\u2019 his job right he\u2019s gonna mail the heck out of that package.\u00a0 The package is _________ fatiguing so the responses will become less and less fantastic.<\/p>\n Well when that happens, then you go after the control.\u00a0 Don\u2019t have your little text panel going up against a smokin\u2019 hot control \u2018cause you\u2019re probably gonna lose.<\/p>\n But if you give it some time and that\u2019s when somebody calls me and goes, \u2018Hey, we have this package right now and it\u2019s really doin\u2019 well in the mail and we just think we could do better.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Mm, ya\u2019 know what?\u00a0 Call me back in six months and let\u2019s talk about it then.\u2019\u00a0 Because that\u2019s ridiculous.<\/p>\n You wanna play your odds.\u00a0 It\u2019s an odds game.\u00a0 That\u2019s why I can say hey, 85 percent of my packages are controlled.\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s an odds game.\u00a0 The reason is that I\u2019m not gonna go after a hot package because the odds of me beating that package are gonna be slimmer because first of all, I already know it\u2019s already by an experienced copywriter.\u00a0 So that is one of the things where I\u2019m like, mm, I\u2019ll just wait it out.<\/p>\n I learned that from Gary Bencivenga at his seminar a few years ago and if Gary Bencivenga won\u2019t do it, why the heck am I gonna go and do that.\u00a0 So that\u2019s probably my number one secret is just if they tell you we have a package, we\u2019ve mailed it for awhile.\u00a0 It has definitely fatigued, then great.\u00a0 This is the time to step in and come up with an idea of something that could possibly beat it because the package is fatiguing.<\/p>\n No matter how fantastic a package is it eventually will fatigue.\u00a0 There are some packages that are called evergreen because they\u2019ve been mailing for ten years or more and they\u2019re still doing well.\u00a0 That\u2019s great, but there aren\u2019t that many of those around.<\/p>\n Most packages within a year\u2019s time or so start to fatigue because they\u2019ve been over mailed and people have seen them enough. They\u2019re recognizable and so it dies out.\u00a0 It happens to my stuff all the time.\u00a0 That\u2019s why we have more work.\u00a0 One package fatigues and the other one comes in.\u00a0 So that would be the number one.<\/p>\n Now the question was again what\u2019s my secret for beating a control?<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; top \u2013 and that first one is a huge, huge secret.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> That\u2019s huge; yeah; that\u2019s huge.\u00a0 Number two.\u00a0 Oh, number two is don\u2019t\u2019 be afraid to beat your own control.\u00a0 In fact, that\u2019s the best scenario to be in.\u00a0 I like it when my client tells me, \u2018Hey, Carline, your package is fatiguing.\u2019\u00a0 Then what I usually will do I\u2019ll say, \u2018Hey listen, let me give you some new headlines.\u00a0 Let me give you a new cover test.\u00a0 Let me give you something to tweak the package to keep it going.\u2019<\/p>\n That helps me because it keeps my royalties coming in, but even after several months of doing that, eventually my package is going to fatigue and a new package will be needed.<\/p>\n I love it when my client says, \u2018Hey, your package is pretty much fatigued right now.\u00a0 You wanna write a new package?\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019m like, \u2018Oh heck yeah.\u2019\u00a0 So being able to beat my own control is a great thing to do.\u00a0 I have no loyalty to my controls.\u00a0 They did their job.\u00a0 Now it\u2019s like okay, try to do something better from there.\u00a0 So that was my second one is don\u2019t be afraid to go after and beat your own control.<\/p>\n The third one for beating a control would be, there are a lot of crappy products out there.\u00a0 I shouldn\u2019t say crappy products.\u00a0 There are a lot of crappy products out there, but I mean there are a lot of packages that aren\u2019t that well written.\u00a0 So a lot of crappy copy out there I should say more so.\u00a0 So look for those.<\/p>\n If you get something in the mail and you think you can beat that package, get in touch with the marketing director or whoever you can make a contact with in that company and you\u2019ve gotta prove to them why you think you can beat it, but go for it.<\/p>\n I had that experience happen with a weight loss product.\u00a0 I\u2019m not big on the weight loss stuff.\u00a0 That\u2019s not really me ________ don\u2019t like it as far as what I like to write about, but a client of mine has this package that I got in the mail.\u00a0 I recognized, I knew it was his.\u00a0 He\u2019s one of my clients.\u00a0 I read this thing and I\u2019m going, okay, they\u2019re targeting 40 plus year old females.\u00a0 Why is this not appealing to me at all as a member of that marketplace.<\/p>\n I read it and I just thought man, this copy is not good at all.\u00a0 Why in the world did he even bother mailing this.\u00a0 It\u2019s confusing.\u00a0 It\u2019s this.\u00a0 It\u2019s whatever whatever.\u00a0 That was my take on the copy.<\/p>\n So I called up the client and I asked him.\u00a0 I said, \u2018Okay, what the heck are you doing here \u2018cause I don\u2019t understand \u2013 if this thing is a control \u2013 you might as well shoot me because I would not even think that was the case\u2019\u00a0 He said, \u2018No, I\u2019m struggling with it.\u00a0 It\u2019s not doing well.\u2019\u00a0 Whatever.<\/p>\n I was like, \u2018Well here\u2019s why.\u2019\u00a0 I started talking about different things that could be done to make the package better and what not.\u00a0 Finally he\u2019s like, \u2018Well ya\u2019 know what?\u00a0 Why don\u2019t you write me the package yourself.\u2019<\/p>\n I got the job right there on the spot to write a new package because I called him up to tell him hey, this is why this package \u2013 I said, \u2018I know it\u2019s not working.\u2019\u00a0 Just because of what I thought and I could have been wrong and he could say, \u2018No, it\u2019s the best thing in the world.\u2019\u00a0 I would say, \u2018Okay, thanks, have a good day.\u2019<\/p>\n But my gut instinct was no, this is not working well at all and I was right.\u00a0 So I just said, \u2018Ya\u2019 know here\u2019s why.\u2019\u00a0 That\u2019s like giving away free advice.\u00a0 Sure, the client could have said, \u2018Ooh, I\u2019m just gonna take everything Carline says and then give it back to the writer and tell the writer to do that.\u2019\u00a0 That\u2019s fine, but my clients don\u2019t really do that kind of stuff.\u00a0 They know that is become second hand information and it may or may not work out the way I\u2019m suggesting it.<\/p>\n So he got tired of me giving him ________ suggestions and he goes, \u2018Well you just write one yourself.\u00a0 Write it for me.\u2019\u00a0 And I did.\u00a0 I wrote that package in a weekend and I beat it.\u00a0 I beat the control.\u00a0 So that\u2019s the thing.\u00a0 So my third secret would be look for the really weak stuff out there and go after those.<\/p>\n Gary Bensivinga calls those the low hanging fruit.\u00a0 He\u2019s like, \u2018You don\u2019t have to go all the way to the top of the tree to eat.\u00a0 You can get the low hanging fruit.\u00a0 Beat those.\u00a0 Beat these things that you\u2019re like oh man \u2018cause now you\u2019re building a reputation, you\u2019ve got samples, you\u2019ve got credibility and it wasn\u2019t that hard.<\/p>\n The secret really is you don\u2019t have to be, on a scale of one to ten, you don\u2019t have to be a number ten or a number nine kind of copywriter.\u00a0 You\u2019ve just gotta be one better than the existing control.<\/p>\n So if you can assess that control as being, on a scale of one to ten, that control\u2019s about a five, then you better write a six copy.\u00a0 If your copy\u2019s a six you\u2019ve beat the control.\u00a0 So you never made it to being a ten.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter.\u00a0 The client thinks you\u2019re wonderful \u2018cause you beat the control.<\/p>\n Then you can keep getting better.\u00a0 So if the control\u2019s a three, just be a four and you\u2019ve got a winner.\u00a0 I gave you three.\u00a0 Not bad.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> That\u2019s awesome.\u00a0 That\u2019s great advice.\u00a0 I know we\u2019ve got a lot of beginning copywriters on the call.\u00a0 You just have taken away all their excuses.\u00a0 That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n Ya\u2019 know what?\u00a0 It\u2019s 2:57.\u00a0 I know I said 60 minutes.\u00a0 There\u2019s a couple more questions if you don\u2019t mind hangin\u2019 around just a few more minutes \u2013<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Well I do have to get this design okayed also.\u00a0 I can hang on a little bit longer, yes, but I do have to get back to work.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> I\u2019m gonna read you a question and then I\u2019m gonna tell you what I think he\u2019s really saying.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Okay.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> It says, \u2018What is the first step Carline takes when she\u2019s building a letter?\u00a0 The offer, the header, the bullets, study a control, drinking your favorite tea, etc.?\u2019\u00a0 Let me paraphrase what I think he\u2019s saying \u2018cause I hear this from a lot of copywriters.<\/p>\n It is hard getting started.\u00a0 How in the world do you get started when you got all this information in front of you and now all of a sudden you\u2019re looking at a blank page in Microsoft Word?\u00a0 How do you go about it?<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> The way I used to do it is I\u2019d have a panic attack and then just run away from my computer, but I found that that doesn\u2019t really help me get over the problem.<\/p>\n So the best way I get \u2013 and I do this all the time.\u00a0 I\u2019m just starting a new project right now actually and this is exactly what I do.\u00a0 The thing is you never wanna start with a blank screen and if you\u2019re a copywriter you never have to start with a blank screen.\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 Because guess what?\u00a0 Every sales letter, every promotion has \u2013 there are certain elements that are definite elements that must go in your sales letter.<\/p>\n For example, you need an order form, you need a guarantee.\u00a0 Those are two things that are definites.\u00a0 You know you\u2019re probably gonna have testimonials in there.\u00a0 So here\u2019s three elements right there.<\/p>\n I do work on my quality and control sidebar, explaining why the company is so good and how they go about making their nutrients and ingredients so much different than everybody else.\u00a0 So those are all kind of staples in every one of my packages.<\/p>\n So I call up a Word file, a document file and I\u2019ll name it immediately the name of the project and then draft one and the date.\u00a0 Then I will immediately go from an old project, if it\u2019s from one client I\u2019ll go to the same client\u2019s file and go and pick up an old order form, an old guarantee, some testimonial sidebar or something and I put those in the copy immediately because that means I\u2019m not staring at a blank page.<\/p>\n All of a sudden just by cut and pasting I\u2019ve got four pages of copy.\u00a0 That ain\u2019t _________.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t even \u2013 [Phone ringing]<\/em><\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> _______________.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Let\u2019s see.\u00a0 I can let that call go through.\u00a0 Unfortunately it\u2019s gonna ring.\u00a0 Sorry about — _________ I may lose you so I\u2019m gonna let it ring over to the other _________ and hope _________.<\/p>\n Can you still hear me okay now?<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; I appreciate you sticking around.\u00a0 We\u2019ll only do one more question.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah; that\u2019s okay.\u00a0 I\u2019ll call them back later.\u00a0 What was I saying?\u00a0 So put those elements immediately in your Word document because now you\u2019re not staring at document \u2013 what I always do is I will highlight all of the elements that I know I\u2019ve just dropped in place, I\u2019ll highlight them in yellow or green.\u00a0 One color, pick one color that tells me this is not original copy. This is a cut and paste job.<\/p>\n I just throw that in there and say okay, I\u2019ll get back to that later.\u00a0 It\u2019s like huh, I\u2019ve already done three pages already.\u00a0 Whew.\u00a0 You know you\u2019re gonna need a headline somewhere, your sales letter has to have a headline.\u00a0 So just put in in big 24 or 48 point impact font, big frickin\u2019 headline goes here and just leave it alone for now.\u00a0 You\u2019ll get that later.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s how I\u2019ll start my package.\u00a0 Then I usually take a break \u2018cause that was hard work cutting and pasting ya\u2019 know.\u00a0 Then I will start my research.\u00a0 My clients used to send me research kits.\u00a0 Now everything comes by e-mail so I\u2019ve gotta spend a day almost printing out tons of stuff, PDF files or Word docs or whatever and I\u2019ll have a stack I\u2019m looking at.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll just pick a small chunk of it and I\u2019ll just start reading.\u00a0 As I\u2019m reading the information, as I read something I think is interesting I call my aha moments, like oh, that\u2019s interesting, I didn\u2019t know that, aha.\u00a0 Then I\u2019ll just stop what I\u2019m doing and I\u2019ll just type it up or I\u2019ll copy and paste it into my Word document.\u00a0 Then I just move on.<\/p>\n If I have an idea as I\u2019m writing \u2013 like right now I\u2019m working on a project.\u00a0 I haven\u2019t even started the letter, but I\u2019ve already got four different cover tests for it.\u00a0 So I got these ideas as I was reading the research.\u00a0 I\u2019m like ooh, _________ covers.\u00a0 I have all the covers done, but I haven\u2019t gotten one single word of sales.<\/p>\n I have no idea what my theme is.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know anything else about it, but I know I like these ideas for covers.\u00a0 They may or may not end up being in the final, but that\u2019s okay.\u00a0 It\u2019s no problem.<\/p>\n So I\u2019ll just read and if I find an aha moment I\u2019ll stop, type it in, cut it, paste it in.\u00a0 If I think it\u2019s gonna be a sidebar I\u2019ll just put it in bracket SB for sidebar, a bracket and then drop the copy in there, but it may end up being in the main letter later on.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know, but I don\u2019t care.\u00a0 I\u2019m not limiting myself at this point.\u00a0 I\u2019m just gathering information.<\/p>\n By the time I\u2019ve gone through all of the research information that they\u2019ve sent me and read the books and everything else that they\u2019ve sent me I usually have about a 30 to 50 page document I\u2019m looking at, which is nothing but just ideas and thoughts I\u2019ve just thrown into this document.<\/p>\n It\u2019s all hairy-carey helter-skelter and it makes no sense at all yet, but it\u2019s okay.\u00a0 Then when I\u2019ve done all my research, then for the most part whatever I\u2019ve put in that document is what I\u2019m gonna now either go in and weed out or enhance and that\u2019s gonna eventually become my sales letter, my sidebars, anything else I need to have.<\/p>\n Then I\u2019ll just go back to the order form and the guarantee and I will rewrite those when it\u2019s time to get to that point.\u00a0 If I have ideas of what I wanna write for or special report or premium I wanna give away I\u2019ll put little notes to myself in that document.\u00a0 That is how I write package.\u00a0 There\u2019s no mystery to it.<\/p>\n Once I do that, then it\u2019s just \u2013 all that information \u2013 what did Michael Angelo \u2013 was it Michael Angelo, one of the real famous painters that they said they look at a slab of marble or whatever and they just chisel away at the stuff they don\u2019t need and then there\u2019s a masterpiece right there.\u00a0 That\u2019s how I look at the copy.<\/p>\n I have all of this information on here.\u00a0 Then I start goin\u2019 back at it.\u00a0 I\u2019m like ah, that\u2019s kinda\u2019 lame.\u00a0 So on the very bottom of the document form I\u2019ll have a section that says, \u2018Extra Copy.\u2019\u00a0 I\u2019ll just cut it out, cut it out of my main letter.\u00a0 So I\u2019m cutting up the stuff I don\u2019t need and then I start moving some sidebars into a letter or taking some letter out and put into a sidebar, turning it into a poll quote or a great testimonial gets included in my letter.<\/p>\n That\u2019s how I do it.\u00a0 I just keep cutting away at the stuff I don\u2019t need until the real good stuff is left behind<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> There ya\u2019 go.\u00a0 An awesome technique for not only relieving the blank page anxiety, but for getting things started and how to complete a package.\u00a0 That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n I personally have like a million other questions, but I\u2019m just gonna ask one more from the subscribers.\u00a0 \u2018What do you see is the future of direct response copywriting?\u00a0 Are there trends with social media?\u2019<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> If there are I don\u2019t know if they are in all honesty.\u00a0 I am so not social media oriented.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have a Facebook.\u00a0 I\u2019m not linked into anything.\u00a0 I\u2019m just happy I have a website now and I have a Blackberry.\u00a0 That\u2019s my social media.<\/p>\n People ask that question a lot as far as do I think direct response is gonna be dead.\u00a0 I remember that controversy coming up when the internet first came up.\u00a0 It\u2019s like oh, that\u2019s gonna be the end of direct mail.<\/p>\n I personally think that as long as we have humans living on this earth we\u2019re gonna have a need for communication.\u00a0 So in some form or another direct response is not gonna go anywhere.\u00a0 It may take on different nuances.<\/p>\n For example, when I first started off I was a direct mail copywriter.\u00a0 Now I write for the internet, too, but it wasn\u2019t that hard of a transition because guess what?\u00a0 Internet copy still is a sales copy.\u00a0 You still have to catch the attention.<\/p>\n It may be laid out differently.\u00a0 It may use different fonts and that kind of stuff, but for the most part it\u2019s still a sales letter.\u00a0 So I think you\u2019re still gonna need to communicate with your marketplace.<\/p>\n Now the medium, how they do it with the Twitter and the social marketing and all the kind of stuff that they\u2019re doing, I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 That\u2019s not where my market is right now.\u00a0 Maybe I should get better at it right now, but if I don\u2019t, it gives somebody else a chance to become a pro at it.<\/p>\n I saw the transitions that I had to make into the internet and it was kind of scary at first \u2018cause it\u2019s like oh no, you have to write short copy for the internet.\u00a0 That\u2019s not true.\u00a0 You write copy until it sells.\u00a0 That\u2019s the bottom line, whether short, medium or long.\u00a0 That\u2019s not necessary and you can always test it to find out does long copy pull \u2018cause many times long copy pulls better than short copy on the internet depending on what the product you\u2019re selling and what your offer is.<\/p>\n Many of my clients have just taken my entire direct mail piece and put it on the internet with very minor editing to it.\u00a0 So I see that.\u00a0 The bottom line is you still have to be able to write good, convincing copy to be able to sell a product.<\/p>\n So I think as long as people are selling something and they need a way to communicate their message to their prospects that the salesman is not gonna go anywhere or copywriter is not gonna go, but how my job evolves in the upcoming years, I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 I\u2019m must willing to go with it.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll go ahead and learn what I need to learn and get with the flow so I can keep myself employed.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Exactly.\u00a0 Carline, I really appreciate you doing this.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t tell you this before the call, but I did an article about this, too.\u00a0 I had a little health scare recently that made me kind of start reevaluating things.\u00a0 I got to think, ya\u2019 know, what are people gonna say about me when I die.<\/p>\n So the DobermanDan.com I decided it\u2019s gonna be my legacy.\u00a0 I\u2019m gonna teach everything I know about starting direct response businesses and being a kitchen table entrepreneur and this\u2019ll be my legacy.\u00a0 I just can\u2019t thank you enough that you have decided to be a part of my legacy by being on this call.\u00a0 So this \u2013<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Wow!\u00a0 I didn\u2019t know I was being part of a legacy in this call.\u00a0 Woohoo.\u00a0 Thanks for \u2013<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> You are and actually in more ways than one.\u00a0 First of all, you kicking my butt last year at the seminar and telling me to get back to work as part of \u2013<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Yeah; ___________________ that was good; okay.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> So yeah; I can\u2019t thank you enough for taking the time out to do this thing.\u00a0 You write an awesome e-zine newsletter.\u00a0 So would you please give out your website address so people can sign up for that?<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Sure.\u00a0 It\u2019s CarlineCole.com, C-A-R-L-I-N-E and C-O-L-E.com and on my website you can sign up for my copy star newsletter, which I need to get an issue out soon.\u00a0 It\u2019s August already so I need to write one in the next couple of days so I have a new one coming out there.<\/p>\n But I just write the newsletters and share what I know, what I\u2019m doing lately and what I think\u2019ll work and help copywriters \u2018cause I know it\u2019s tough.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been there and I get tons of people asking me to help them out and that wanna be a copy cub, but I just can\u2019t do it all.<\/p>\n I left the corporate world \u2018cause I don\u2019t want to have to work for a company or be responsible for managing a lot of people.\u00a0 I like my freelance style.\u00a0 So yeah, I hire copywriters that help me out as I need them at times on other projects, but for the most part, nah.\u00a0 I like the stress free thing of writing my own stuff and having a low overhead.\u00a0 I gotta great year, then I gotta great year.\u00a0 If I have a bad year, hey, it\u2019s still a great year.<\/p>\n So I don\u2019t have a copywriting empire to hire hundreds of copywriters to help out the young ones to get their foot in the door.\u00a0 So the next best thing I do is I do my e-zine and I really do give away stuff that I\u2019m doing right now that I\u00a0 call them \u2013 they\u2019re not secrets \u2018cause I\u2019m giving them away, but they are practical and actionable advice that can be used immediately no matter where you are in your copywriting stages.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s what I do that.\u00a0 Then last year I did my copywriting boot camp on steroids.\u00a0 Dan was there and participated in that.\u00a0 I only wanted 20 people to be part of that and I got them.\u00a0 That was huge.\u00a0 That was a great success as far as helping a lot of writers.\u00a0 The ones who are existing writers get off their butt and really do something with their talent or the new writers that kind of get started.<\/p>\n I was even able to help a couple other people there to get some jobs writing some premiums and special reports and stuff like that to give them a little bit of a head start in their field.\u00a0 So that\u2019s cool, too, but besides that I\u2019m like okay.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got an e-book I\u2019m working on.\u00a0 That\u2019ll be my fourth one.\u00a0 That\u2019s on my website too, whenever I\u2019m done with it.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s what I\u2019m thinkin\u2019.\u00a0 Okay, I\u2019ll share what I know.\u00a0 This is what I\u2019m willing to do \u2018cause I can\u2019t take everybody under my wing, but if it helps cool.\u00a0 If it doesn\u2019t, sorry.\u00a0 But it\u2019s there and it\u2019s free information that you can do and use what you want.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; it\u2019s great information.\u00a0 I get a lot of value out of every issue so I encourage everybody to sign up for that.\u00a0 Carline, thanks again.\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell you how much I appreciate this.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Oh, well you\u2019re very welcome and I hope I helped you guys out.\u00a0 The dog pound \u2013 am I in the dog house or the dog pound?<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> You were in the dog house.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> In the dog house; okay.\u00a0 I\u2019m in the hizzy.\u00a0 Well, like I say, hope you guys took advantage, learned somethin\u2019 in the past hour that helped you out \u2018cause that\u2019s why you give me your time to hopefully help you make something better for the rest of your time.\u00a0 So hopefully I did that.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Yeah; you did that and more Carline.\u00a0 Thanks again.\u00a0 I really appreciate it.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Alright Dan.\u00a0 I\u2019ll talk to ya\u2019 later.<\/p>\n Doberman Dan:<\/em> Okay; take care.\u00a0 Bye bye.<\/p>\n Carline Cole:<\/em> Bye bye.<\/p>\n [End of Audio]<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Tuesday, 1:49 PM Dear Friend, A few weeks ago one of the best copywriters in the world, Carline Anglade Cole, was kind enough to share her most effective copywriting secrets with me. I posted the MP3 here… but you may prefer to get your info in writing… so your buddy DD is looking out for […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,18],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-1055","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-copywriting","7":"category-teleseminars"},"yoast_head":"\n
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\nP.S. Carline revealed a LOT about how to be a successful copywriter… but the secret she revealed about how to beat a control could be worth a literal FORTUNE for you.
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\nDoberman Dan:<\/em> Welcome everybody to another edition of Doberman Dan\u2019s Doghouse and today I am quite honored to have Carline Anglade Cole with me today.\u00a0 Carline, I guess I didn\u2019t prep you for this, but you are in what is now known as \u201cthe doghouse.\u201d<\/p>\n